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I have seen a lot of discourse since the first PTR announced that Tauren are going to be T2.

I thought there was a more structured discussion to be had about this unit and why it just doesn't work in it's historical state.

I invite some wider discussion about Tauren because discussions on this reddit have often filtered into some good changes on PTR and balance.

Without further ado, I present, my take:

Why do Tauren suck?

So here's an overall look at why Tauren just aren't that good in modern Wc3:

• They're extremely expensive both on food and luimber
• They take a long time to get to any critical threat level
• They are extremely vulnerable to roots, snares, slows, etc
• Melee
• They are hard countered by most of the other units that are on their Tier 3.5 level (Frost Wyrms, Chimeras, Gryphons, or casters who unlock Polymorph, Possession, Cripple, Cyclone)

So some issues:

• Expensive in Time and Resource
• Not actually that strong vs their peer units
• Weak to snares

Why moving them to T2 seems to not be a good idea?

After taking the temperature of the community since the announcement, I think most people agree that the T2 change is not really the answer, and for a couple of reasons that I mostly agree with:

Firstly, Orc is already a T2 dependent race, this further cements them into a role that will only cause more issues as time goes on, it is healthy for the game that all races have T2 and T3 options. Moving Taurens to T2 because "thats Orc identity" in my opinion is a fairly poor solution.

Secondly, this depletes late game Orc options, Tauren already are a weak thing to tech for, and in a sense we have to make them even weaker to justify the fact they are available earlier. Either they are a weak unit so it's fair that they're available at T2, or they are a strong unit that justifies the late tier.

Thirdly, Their high cost isn't even their biggest issue, I'd argue that their weakness to snares and their high food and XP cost are far, far bigger issues. Taurens are level 5 units which cost 5 food, and give 115 XP, and their big Tier 3 synergy involves... them dying.

Deisgn

This brings us onto the main problem with Tauren... There is a gaping hole in Tauren design that just obviously needs addressing if you want to make the unit viable in 1v1 (Which, by the way, is not a necessity, they serve a purpose in team games!)

Tauren are a unit expected to die and get ressurected, offering 115 XP in the process and costing a huge amount of mana on the spirit walker, which, by the way, is also responsible for KEEPING Tauren alive with spirit link and disenchant to make them less vulnerable to magic.

Tauren are slow, supply-heavy melee units that need a huge amount of support to even be useful, the fact you can't get them until Tier 3 are simply not their biggest design problem.

Alternative Options

To be clear, I don't even think you need to change Tauren, I think it's fine for them to be a bit of a meme, and moving the Tauren totem to T2 was already a nice boost for them.

I humbly offer some alternatives to demonstrate what the actual issues are and how any of these might better target those problems.

First alternative:

If you actually want Tauren to see more play, lets focus on their biggest weakness:

They cost a huge amount of supply and are therefore extremely XP expensive, despite the fact their main synergy involves ressurection

Therefore - Reduce them to 4 food and reduce from level 5 (115xp) -> 4 (85xp) in line with all the other T3 melee units. Are Tauren better than Abominations in pure stat terms? Sure, but Orc has worse synergies for Tauren and also it sort of makes sense for them to have a powerful T3 melee.

Second Alternative:

Massively reduce the mana cost of ancestral spirit - It doesn't really make sense that this is so expensive, it's not a spell you can spam, either a Tauren/Walker is dead and can be revived, or it's not. It's not like Orc can carry meatwagons full of Tauren corpses around (Although this does seem like the ultimate meme 2v2 Strat). This should be a cheaper spell both to cast and to cooldown. Walkers already have to make very difficult decisions on which spells to cast, they don't need additional pressure on them, as Orc is a race whose casters already struggle with mana regeneration.

Third Alternative:

Go in the opposite direction, Tauren arent good enough at T3? Well make them even better!

Part of the Orc's problem is their T3 melee is not worth it, so why not add MORE tech? Give them an additional powerful T3 upgrade like we did with Knights that make them even better at their role? Resistant skin seems a bit derivative of MGs, perhaps an activatable spell that makes them magic immune for 5 seconds (and dispells active spells on them) with a 45 second cooldown?

Sort of like Naix's ability in Dota, which I think fits the theme of rampaging bulls.

I don't know what design you could do to make them actually a scary unit, but give Orc something really big and scary to tech for like Carriers are in BW, something where if you are defeated by it and complain to your friends, they say "well you let him get to Tier 3.5 Tauren, what did you expect?"

Make Taurens Scary Again

Conclusion

T2 Tauren is not the right solution to this problem.

Address the fact that:

• Tauren have terrible synergies
• Hard countered by other T3 units
• They don't really perform their T3 Melee role as well as other race units do
• They are extremely expensive food + XP
• They aren't even worth it when they are fully teched out

The fact they don't come out early enough is not really their main problem.

I have the QF Amex ultimate card, which provides 2 x QF club passes when purchasing flights with the Amex.

If I use points to book a domestic classic reward flight, and pay the taxes with my Amex, does this count as an eligible purchase to obtain the passes?

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Im a 22 year old female with a 4 year old child. A single parent that has tried dating and kept going back to my child’s father. Even though he does not support in any way shape or form. I got into a serious relationship and ultimately ended up cheating with my childs father once again. I came clean and broke up, now fast forward to today. I am pregnant and contemplating abortion. I mean, it is my only option, especially because the dad can be either guy. I got pregnant around the time i cheated, took plan b with one not with the other. Told both guys one is supportive, but of course my childs father is disgusted. Im so scared to go through with this abortion but I recently got into a really good school and raising the child on my own with the child I already have while in school seems impossible to me. I never thought I would have an abortion, and I feel like every decision i make is wrong. I cant tell anyone in my family because i will be treated with judgement and disrespect. Its killing me, i feel so horrible. I feel like after being cheated on multiple times and abused by my childs father, i just stopped trusting men and did what i wanted. Now im paying the consequences and im torn.

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No one in my life has mentioned my wieghtloss. I know that shouldnt matter, that this is ultimately for my health and I'm the only one who benefits. But it's nice to get words of recognition for all your hard work . I'm trying remind myself through before and afters that there is a difference and it doesn't matter if Ppl even notice because I feel healthy and strong. I'm very far from my ultimate goal wieght but I'm loving myself through this journey and truly am enjoying it.

I resonate so much with sapphic women’s experience of compulsory heterosexuality.

I grew up assuming I was straight because it’s the “default.” And I didn’t have all consuming feelings toward the same sex that I assumed lesbians have. Not that I didn’t find women attractive, compelling, and just objectively better than men. But, being immersed in a conservative evangelical culture, questioning/exploring/experimenting was taboo. I never really considered that there was another option for me.

In my adolescence, I had what I thought were crushes on boys. Looking back, I liked the attention and validation I got from men being attracted to me. I internalized that the ultimate goal is to be desired by men. Once I felt like I achieved that, and there was the possibility of more, I instantly got the ick. My “feelings” went off like a light switch.

I’ve always thought that just meant I was really fucked up…what I would now call an avoidant attachment style and/or trauma response. As I’ve matured and become self-assured, no longer needing that external validation I really haven’t had a “crush” on a man since…

I’ve been trying on the label of aroace the last couple months. It explains the pulling away from something I never really wanted. I’ve never prioritized seeking romantic relationships. I never could imagine myself as married. I’m 35 with zero romantic or sexual experience.

That all sounds very aroace. And yet, I do feel attraction to women. I just don’t know how to categorize that attraction. I always thought it was admiration/envy because that’s what I was conditioned to believe…but tbh now that I’ve mentally allowed for the possibility, it feels like more than that. The “do I want to be her,” or “do I want her” conundrum is so confusing.

I’ve read many experiences lately of lesbians who thought they were asexual and who thought they had avoidant attachment styles because of how they felt toward men. That they were just super independent and had high standards.

And now I’m left wondering. Does comphet resonate because it involves compulsory sexuality in general? Or has the religious indoctrination and comphet caused me to repress and minimize the attraction I do feel for women?

Or maybe it’s both…there is some attraction to women and I’m aro/ace spec.

If anyone has advice or input on how to distinguish between the two, I’m open to it.

I resonate so much with sapphic women’s experience of compulsory heterosexuality.

I grew up assuming I was straight because it’s the “default.” And I didn’t have all consuming feelings toward the same sex that I assumed lesbians have. Not that I didn’t find women attractive, compelling, and just objectively better than men. But, being immersed in a conservative evangelical culture, questioning/exploring/experimenting was taboo. I never really considered that there was another option for me.

In my adolescence, I had what I thought were crushes on boys. Looking back, I liked the attention and validation I got from men being attracted to me. I internalized that the ultimate goal is to be desired by men. Once I felt like I achieved that, and there was the possibility of more, I instantly got the ick. My “feelings” went off like a light switch.

I’ve always thought that just meant I was really fucked up…what I would now call an avoidant attachment style and/or trauma response. As I’ve matured and become self-assured, no longer needing that external validation I really haven’t had a “crush” on a man since…

I’ve been trying on the label of aroace the last couple months. It explains the pulling away from something I never really wanted. I’ve never prioritized seeking romantic relationships. I never could imagine myself as married. I’m 35 with zero romantic or sexual experience.

That all sounds very aroace. And yet, I do feel attraction to women. I just don’t know how to categorize that attraction. I always thought it was admiration/envy because that’s what I was conditioned to believe…but tbh now that I’ve mentally allowed for the possibility, it feels like more than that. The “do I want to be her,” or “do I want her” conundrum is so confusing.

I’ve read many experiences lately of lesbians who thought they were asexual and who thought they had avoidant attachment styles because of how they felt toward men. That they were just super independent and had high standards.

And now I’m left wondering. Does comphet resonate because it involves compulsory sexuality in general? Or has the religious indoctrination and comphet caused me to repress and minimize the attraction I do feel for women?

Or maybe it’s both…there is some attraction to women and I’m aro/ace spec.

If anyone has advice or input on how to distinguish between the two, I’m open to it.

On my Roman African playthrough (using RICE, Africa Plus, Cultures Expanded, and a bunch of other mods), I had the Black Death set to once per game but at a completely random date. My first ruler was a Stewardship main who spent her early reign redistributing land, introducing some Byzantine Greek traditions to our culture via Sicily, civilizing and re-Christianizing the Berbers of the interior, and improving the economy with plenty of new buildings in the cities of the Kingdom.

Things were running smoothly for the most part when out of nowhere, the Black Death appeared in Bengal around the year 890, and had reached us in North Africa within a year or two. While my close family and I all managed to avoid contracting the disease, many of my friends, vassals, and best councilors died of it, causing me a great deal of stress, made worse by my eccentric personality. My athleticism let me cope enough to prevent it from completely overwhelming me, for a while at least.

Worst of all, investments I was forced to make to stave off the worst of the peasants’ apocalyptic hysteria completely bankrupted the kingdom, and the plague’s mass devastation to the peasantry made all my holdings completely worthless and put us over two hundred gold in debt.

While the plague only ended up lasting a year or two, it left me with a completely wrecked economy and the development and control of my counties often literally at zero. While my kingdom’s development began to recover at a snail’s pace, the mountain of debt I’d racked up from placating the panicked peasantry resulted in all of our holdings being in a state of anarchy as our government lacked the funds to administer them.

For the decade or so following the plague, practically every county gained thieves’ guilds, lackluster administrations, bandits running rampant, unsafe highways, and other problems, greatly slowing the recovery, making my holdings even more worthless, and ensuring we kept losing money even when we were already approaching a 300-gold deficit. I sent my martial to try to restore order at least in the capital and its surroundings, but since my competent martial died during the plague, his replacement ended up being an incompetent boor whose heavy hand created more problems than he solved.

Desperate to get out of debt, I went to work. I shook down all of my subjects, melting down every spare trinket, coin, and artifact could get the priesthood to fork over, and using my status as house head to force my landed grandsons to give me what gold they had left.

While this helped cut the mountain of debt down to a molehill, it still did only half the job. Thinking quickly, I sent my spymaster, my trusted daughter known for her talent navigating court intrigue, into the court of the Holy Roman Empire to search for people to blackmail. Over the next few years, we uncovered scores of adulterers, murderers, fornicators, deviants, closet pagans, and all sorts of other degenerates, many of whom were powerful Dukes or Priests with plenty of money. Threatening to expose them for their acts against God should they not comply, I shook them all down for every last bit of gold they could get me. This ended up finally being enough to get the Kingdom out of debt, just before I would have been hit with a slew of vassal and peasant revolts that could have torn the Kingdom to pieces.

With another stroke of luck, I managed to replace my shit martial with a far better replacement, a Christianized Berber elected mayor of some city in the interior, who quickly reasserted control over the capital region and soon began restoring government presence in other areas along the coast as well. The gold from these holdings soon began trickling in, and in another stroke of luck, I acquired direct control over Sicily when its Duke drank himself to death, having turned to alcohol after losing his wife and children to the plague. The extra gold from these holdings allowed us to finally start making rather than losing gold again, and before long, the economy had some functionality again, although still a shadow of itself pre-plague.

However, I was not to enjoy the fruits of this for long, as the Duke of Sicily was a good friend of mine going all the way back to my early reign, and his death completely broke me. I abdicated the throne, allowing my only son, in his early thirties, to take the throne. Less than a year later, I died in my sleep at 59 years old.

This was the first playthrough where I really felt like I had to use every single perk and ability from my lifestyle tree in order to keep the kingdom’s head above water, and it felt really satisfying when it finally paid off. Does anyone have a ruler who was put in a similar situation where they had to use essentially everything their lifestyle tree had to offer at once?

Ultimately, I know that no matter what answer I get here the ultimate conclusion is that its up to the DM to decide. That's not the point of this post. I'm curious as to the actual intention behind how the D&D Multiverse is setup, and I'm hoping that someone more versed in the lore can help me. The following recount is how I best understand the whole situation, and I'm hoping someone can correct any mistakes I make.

There is the planets that most adventures take place on. Places like Toril and Greyhawk (I think Greyhawk isn't the planet, but the setting name, but not important). These worlds exist encased in a crystal sphere, each crystal sphere having its own rules and laws that determine how they work internally. The space between the astronomical bodies inside of a Crystal Sphere is Wildspace. (Wildspace is just basically normal space in the real world). The physical space between the crystal spheres is the Phlogiston which connects them together and Spelljammers fly between worlds through it. While in the Phlogiston one cannot access any of the other planes, extra dimensional spaces and plane shift simply do not function in the Phlogiston. The entirety of this makes up the Prime Material Plane.

The Shadowfell and Feywild are mirrors of each crystal sphere that take up the same space, stacked in some higher dimension. However, there are implications that the Shadowfell at least connects between the different worlds. (Perhaps because the worlds are connected through the Phlogiston the worlds of the Shadowfell are connected). The Shadowfell seems to have a huge variety of depictions in how its setup and seems very diverse in terms of environment, and not everything there seems to connect easily. My understanding is that its a non-Euclidian space that shifts and warps and small bubbles of it occasionally break off and form their own demiplanes within the larger Shadowfell. I assume the Feywild is similar.

The Border Ethereal surrounds the Crystal Spheres and envelops them. Ghosts wander the Border Ethereal and are capable of affecting the Material. Hags and some spells are capable of entering the Border Ethereal. It seems that by traveling through the Border Ethereal one can find themselves in the Deep Ethereal. The Deep Ethereal connects the different Crystal Spheres together and also connects all of them to the Elemental Planes. The Deep Ethereal, much like the Shadowfell also is host to a multitude of demiplanes formed by pinching off pieces of reality.

The Elemental Planes aren't really four separate planes but an infinite construct full of infinite and finite planes many of which are formed in the Elemental Borders (Unclear if Elemental Borders and Elemental Chaos are the same) creating a variety of strange places such as the Plane of Ooze. However the entire construct of the Elemental Planes exists outside of the space of the Phlogiston and the Prime Material Plane. The connection is through the Ethereal Plane, and its not clear if the Elemental Planes exist within the Deep Ethereal, or as a separate construction altogether.

Eberron is important to mention at this point. Sometimes I hear that Eberron exists as its own Crystal Sphere in the cosmology of the Prime Material, and sometimes I hear of it as sealed off from the rest of the multiverse in a bubble in the Deep Ethereal with tendrils of the Shadowfell and Astral surrounding it, giving it its own unique mini Cosmology within the greater multiverse. I just don't know what's going on with that at all.

Now the Astral Sea. Its difficult to reconcile with the variety of cosmologies that treat it as different. In early versions it enveloped all of the planes and could be used to sail from one Crystal Sphere to the next. The Phlogiston now separates the spheres physically, but given that portals can open to the Crystal Spheres it appears that you could still travel from one Sphere to the next through the Astral. In old versions you were able to travel through the different inner planes, such as the Elemental Planes and the Shadowfell. It seems that those locations are now more separate from the Astral, requiring travel through both the Deep Ethereal and the Astral. (This does however imply that the Deep Ethereal and the Astral connect in some places). As a whole the Astral Sea is both infinite and infinitesimal. You could fit as much stuff in there as you want, but distance also has no meaning in terms of travel. The Citadel of Gith Empire sits there, and that implies that they fly Spelljammers in the Astral. That would mean that people fly Spelljammers in Wildspace, the Phlogiston, and the Astral Sea, and frankly there is the implication that you could probably fly one into the Deep Ethereal and the Outer Planes.

More on the Astral Sea, its filled with the corpses of gods. Just the place for dead gods to go, and because the Astral is shared between all of the Crystal Spheres, there is a lot of gods that end up created and then later dead. Anyway, this does beg the question, where are the planes for all of these gods? My suspicion, most of them would have to be demiplanes in the Deep Ethereal, and some in the Shadowfell and Feywild. However, some will occupy the Outer Planes.

The Outer Planes are most easily reached through spell casting, but it does appear that you could travel to them through the Astral through natural portals created. There are a lot of Outer Planes, but largely, they represent the alignments. However, it seems to me that the gods of different settings that reside in the outer planes would have to share the plane with each other. I suppose it wouldn't be that big of a deal, they would be of the same alignment, but I would think it gets awkward. Maybe the outer planes are subdivided into demiplanes that different deities can reside in. But this is the part that feels the most off to me, it feels like travel between the different Crystal Spheres must be common if people all go to the same Outer Planes. What happens if someone ends up returning to the wrong Crystal Sphere? What happens if someone travels to an Outer Plane to ask for help only to realize they traveled to the wrong deity and the one they needed to talk to was in another subsection of the plane elsewhere?

This all goes back to the Overdeities. As far as I know, the only official conformation of an Overdeity is AO, but there has been rumor of others. We also know that Overdeities have control only within their Crystal Sphere. That means that in the Outer Planes AO doesn't have say or power of the gods. Or rather, AO's control over them is fixed to the amount of leverage he has over them regarding their worshippers withing a Crystal Sphere.

Now onto the Far Realm. It just doesn't fit onto the cosmology of everything else here. We know that portals can be opened there, but its not something the players can ever do, its just something that happens occasionally and aberrations pour through. Its seemingly a place beyond reach of the Astral, Ethereal, or the Phlogiston. But we do know that there are Illithid Spelljammers and even Beholder Spelljammers. This does at least imply that both groups travel around, which makes sense for Illithids given that they are trying to reestablish their empire and carry out the Grand Design, but for the Beholders? It gives me questions about the Far Realm that I don't think can be answered with the knowledge given in the books.

Cynosure. Exists as a demiplane in either the Astral, Ethereal, or just casually near Toril depending on edition and cosmology and time period. Only accessible to deities though, so I suppose its not really important to wonder about.

The Fugue Plane. The place where people go when they die to be judged. Has some relation to the Outlands in some places, and is sometimes said to exist in the Astral Sea. (Existing in the Astral Sea makes most sense to me personally. The Astral being timeless makes sense for a place for people to be judged in and then sentenced to their final residence). What doesn't make sense is that in some references the Crystal Spire where souls get judged is in Hades. That makes no sense because Hades is a Neutral Evil Plane, and the Fugue Plane is supposed to be Neutral.

Anyway, the Outlands. Its said that the Outlands is in the center of the Outer Planes. That doesn't really make sense because the planes are separate sections of reality and distance between them is a concept that has no meaning. (Of course, I do some reading and NPCs in game point out this contradiction too. I have NPC energy I guess.) I assume that it being the center is more metaphorical than literal because of the cities that represent the Outer Planes. Its a cool place, and I really like the inclusion of the infinitely tall spire with Sigil at the Top. I like to think of it as another example of the non-Euclidian spaces, where something has a start, and an end, but the distance between the two is infinite, you will never pass through it all. That and the fact that the spire turns off magic and chemistry, but that a separate topic for another time.

Sigil. The city of doors, based on what was just said about the Outlands its location must be simple, right? Not really, its sometimes said to exist within Cynosure, which goes back to the previous problem from before of not really defining where exactly it is, and also how to access it properly. (I mean, it is the city of doors, I'm sure you can find a portal there somewhere.) I have also seen Sigil represented in a Crystal Sphere at one point, but I have been unable to locate the image since then. I am choosing to interpret that as non-canon.

Notable Mentions, demiplanes of dread, which can't seem to figure if they want to be a part of the Shadowfell, or the Ethereal. Lady of Pain. We know that Overdeities rule their Crystal Spheres, but have no influence beyond them. The Lady of Pain has absolute domain over Sigil, which in a way puts her on a similar level as an Overdeity in a weird way? The god Celestian, the god of travelers specifically with power in Greyspace, but no permanent plane, and so instead just wanders the Astral. Bags of Holding, and other extradimensional spaces. They can become portals to the Astral Sea if you mistreat them, but objects placed within experience time at the normal rate, unlike creatures residing in the Astral. I'm not certain what this implies, but it implies something.

TLDR: This is just my best understanding of D&D Cosmology. I'm asking for clarification and corrections on any parts that I got incorrect, and reassurance that it was intended to be this chaotic.